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  • Ask Papabear

Papabear Responds to a Hater

11/13/2013

25 Comments

 
Hello. 

Actually I am not a furry, but ask this question here. I recently knows that my younger brother is furry. I absolutely hate furry. Hated them since childhood, knowing that furry - it's just a manifestation of schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. Furry declare the existence of some "anthropomorphic animals", but I know perfectly well that such can not be, for biological reasons. Nature rewarded a number of multi barriers to interbreeding. From biochemical to genetic incompatibility. Thus, the "anthropomorphic animals" can only be created by transgenically. However, the current level of science is not technology does not allow it. Moreover, there is no reason to believe that at all possible, again for medical reasons. 

I do not know how to act. On the one hand, I totally hate furry, and I think that they should be under the medical supervision of psychiatrists; on the other hand, I can not hate my younger brother. Currently, I kicked him out of my house. Next to me, must not be furry. I'm not homophobic or religious, but I furry hater and dream of all the furry placed in a mental hospital. I told all this to his brother, but he decided to make me angry and told me to buy fursuit from that, I was in a fury. What is wrong with you, furries? Why do you like this nonsense? What good does it bring you? You will also swear to each other, and hate each other. Do you have the same arrogant "celebrities". After I drove my brother-furry, none of the other furry it did not help him. No one, he just burst into life. What a pointless subculture.

Gerard. Belfort, France. (age 21)

* * *

Dear Gerard,

Thank you for caring enough about this issue to write to me. I’m sorry you feel so negatively about furries, but since you took the time to write I will try and explain some things to you.

To begin with, the modern furry fandom began with a bunch of science fiction and fantasy fiction fans who liked to talk about books and movies and comics with anthropomorphic characters. It later grew in playfulness, with people drawing their own art, dressing up, and having conventions. This is all very similar to other types of fan groups, such as Star Trek and comic book superhero fans. None of those people are crazy, and neither are furries. (Schizophrenia is a mental disorder involving delusions, hallucinations, and severe mood swings. Furries are not schizophrenic.) 

You also seem to believe that furries want to somehow breed with animals to create anthro characters, or perhaps create them in laboratories. I don’t know where you got this idea, but it is untrue. We are not advocating the actual creation of anthropomorphic species. What nonsense. While it’s fun to imagine such things, anyone with half a brain knows it is neither realistic nor practical in the real world.

You are convinced that furries are all crazy and should be institutionalized. If that’s true, why are you writing to me, a crazy person, by your definition, for advice? If I were crazy, I could not have graduated at the top of my class in college, become a senior editor in America’s largest reference book publishing company, forged a successful career as a freelancer, and now write a coherent and helpful advice column that has been complimented both by furries and by a couple of professionals in the mental health care field. I know furries who are computer programmers, marketers, pharmacists, professional photographers and printers, mechanics, and much more, all living productive, sane lives.

So, what exactly makes you hate furries so much as to kick your own brother out of your home?  He’s your brother, your flesh and blood, and you have abandoned him and then you have the temerity to complain that other furries won’t help him when you yourself—his own family—have refused to do so? Do you not see the hypocrisy in your own actions? Furthermore, did any of these furries who didn't take in your brother actually know him? If not, why would you assume they would take in a stranger just because he was a furry? That's like saying I should bring a stranger into my home because we both like the same football team. Finally, if he were actually insane for some reason, don't you think that the proper thing for you to have done in that case would have been to get him some help from a psychologist rather than shoving him out the door?

As to why furries such as yours truly enjoy being furry, I will tell you. I have enjoyed books and films with furry characters since I was a boy and read Kipling’s The Jungle Book  and Richard Adams’ Watership Down, well-respected works of literature. I also have and still do enjoy Disney films, and I am certainly not alone in that since such films ranging from Bambi to The Lion King have appealed to millions for decades. Since discovering the fandom, I have made more friends than I ever had in childhood or as a young adult. As a fursuiter, I enjoy dressing up as a bear and entertaining people, like I did most recently at Halloween (see below). Fursuiting brings joy to a lot of people, young and old, and I love to entertain them. Finally, I also have a spiritual connection to furry in that I believe that animal and other spirits in our world can have an effect upon us. With me, the Bear spirit is particularly strong. Think I’m crazy in that respect? Perhaps you should talk to the many thousands of Native Americans who believe as I do and to my spiritual adviser Blackbear, who has taught me about the Medicine Wheel and our connections to animals, something that far to many human beings have sadly lost. So, for me and for many others like me, it is not a “pointless subculture.”

Gerard, you have told me nothing about your brother that should engender such hatred in you. So he is a furry, so what? How does that hurt you so badly that you would make him homeless? Are you ashamed of him? You mention you are not homophobic, implying that your brother may be gay. Are you actually covering up your homophobia with a pretense that you hate furries? I suspect that could be a real possibility.

In the end, who is more crazy? The person who is a furry and likes anthro characters, or his brother, who has a maniacal hatred for something that is harmless (extreme mood swings) and is so delusional (note that word) about what furries actually are that he would make his brother homeless. Hmmmm, sound familiar?

If I had to choose between you and your brother, I know whom I would recommend see a mental health professional.

Papabear
[Supplement to the above. Papabear just got this reply from Gerard. I'm not going to bother to respond to it because he has made up his mind on his views and there is no sense in arguing, but I thought my readers might be interested. The text with > in front of it is Gerard quoting my earlier reply.]

Hi.

> To begin with, the modern furry fandom began with a bunch of science
> fiction and fantasy fiction fans who liked to talk about books and movies
> and comics with anthropomorphic characters.

Anthropomorphic animals do not exist, never existed, and naturally can not occur. Nature has provided a number of restrictions and blocking interbreeding, from genetic incompatibility to biochemical incompatibility. All should know and understand, and not to live in a meaningless world of fantasies that do not lead to anything.

I have carefully read that is your subculture and there are no books or anything. But there are a lot of pornographic images and pornography in the infamous mursuits.

> It later grew in playfulness, with people drawing their own art, dressing
> up, and having conventions. This is all very similar to other types of fan
> groups, such as Star Trek and comic book superhero fans.

I ham and it can also be called subculture. But we have no one dresses up in costumes microchip and is not engaged with the sex. We have no conflicts, hatred, abuse, celebrities with their own sense of grandeur. Our websites is not censorship, as it is yours. We do not fight with the views that we may not like. We have no conflict if someone someone copies the scheme. By the way, hams get useful knowledge.

> None of those people are crazy, and neither are furries. (Schizophrenia is
> a mental disorder involving delusions, hallucinations, and severe mood
> swings. Furries are not schizophrenic.)

To be mad, do not have to be a furry, but to be furry enough to be crazy. You want me to believe that a grown man puts on a suit is not clear why - it is adequate?

> You also seem to believe that furries want to somehow breed with
> animals to create anthro characters, or perhaps create them in
> laboratories. I don t know where you got this idea, but it is untrue. We
> are not advocating the actual creation of anthropomorphic species. What
> nonsense. While it s fun to imagine such things, anyone with half a brain
> knows it is neither realistic nor practical in the real world.

Then what's the point? It's just stupid, it's insane. I can create a radio transmitter, can create a microprocessor-based device, it will all be a reality and will work. That can create furry, tons of nonsense?

> You are convinced that furries are all crazy and should be
> institutionalized. If that s true, why are you writing to me, a crazy
> person, by your definition? If I were crazy, I could not have graduated at
> the top of my class in college, become a senior editor in America s largest
> reference book publishing company, forged a successful career as a
> freelancer, and now write a coherent and helpful advice column that has
> been complimented both by furries and by a couple of professionals in the
> mental health care field. I know furries who are computer programmers,
> marketers, pharmacists, professional photographers and printers,
> mechanics, and much more, all living productive, sane lives.

Mental health is a very broad term. A good writer can be a serial killer.

> So, what exactly makes you hate furries so much as to kick your own
> brother out of your home?

1. It is absolutely pointless.
2. The lack of development.
3. Furry - very bad people: censorship on websites, aggression, anger, arrogance.

I do not want next to me was a furry. Previously, he was kicked out of the house parents who found the yiff image. My father was General of the Army and he almost killed him for this picture.

> He s your brother, your flesh and blood, and you have abandoned him and
> then you have the temerity to complain that other furries won t help him
> when you yourself his own family have refused to do so? Do you not see
> the hypocrisy in your own actions?

This is not a complaint but a statement of fact uselessness of your subculture. Why I did wrong, why should I put up with a furry? My house cost me a very big deal and I will not stand here furry, yiff, fursuit or something like that.

> As to why furries such as yours truly enjoy being furry, I will tell you. I
> have enjoyed books and films with furry characters since I was a boy and
> read Kipling s The Jungle Book  and Richard Adams  Watership Down,
> well-respected works of literature. I also have and still do enjoy Disney
> films, and I am certainly not alone in that since such films ranging from
> Bambi to The Lion King have appealed to millions for decades.

I believe that books and movies where the animals are anthropomorphized - is extremely harmful. Should be read only informative, scientific and  science literature. People engage in this nonsense and do not even have the curiosity to know how the world around us. Disney - it's nasty shit. We are here in France is very hate this company, as they are paying a lot of money to corrupt officials to take those fascist copyright "laws". Willing to sell his mother for money, damn copyrighters.

> Since discovering the fandom, I have made more friends than I ever had
> in childhood or as a young adult.

This is not a friend. Friends - it's close peoples. You talk about the acquaintance and nothing more. Where are the friends of my brother? Huh.

> As a fursuiter, I enjoy dressing up as a bear and entertaining people, like I
> did most recently at Halloween. Fursuiting brings joy to a lot of people,
> young and old, and I love to entertain them.

A large man in a strange costume? In Belfort is not accepted.

> Finally, I also have a spiritual connection to furry in that I believe that
> animal and other spirits in our world can have an effect upon us. With
> me, the Bear spirit is particularly strong. Think I m crazy in that respect?

Yes, this is crazy. There is no soul, and man, like other animals - it's just a biological robot.

> Perhaps you should talk to the many thousands of Native Americans who
> believe as I do and to my spiritual adviser Blackbear who has taught me
> about the Medicine Wheel and our connections to animals, something
> that far to many human beings have sadly lost. So, for me and for many
> others like me, it is not a  pointless subculture.

Even people from Mali is not as obscurantist, to believe in such nonsense. The belief in the soul, some common substance and everything like that is a result of poor education. In France we have is not accepted. It is very strange that in a country of Intel and Google believe in the soul.

> Gerard, you have told me nothing about your brother that should
> engender such hatred in you. So he is a furry, so what? How does that
> hurt you so badly that you would make him homeless?

I have always regarded negatively by the furry and I like the fact that it is far away from me. When it came to me and knocked on the door, to me it was very unpleasant. Why do I have to do on a great effort and tolerate all this? Therefore I will not beat my brother, deleting images and block sites. What does a homeless, it is his life. A few years ago, I, too, left home to army orders and now I have my own house. But furry can not work 12 hours, but can only pictures and fursuit.

> You mention you are not homophobic, implying that your brother may be
> gay. Are you actually covering up your homophobia with a pretense that
> you hate furries? I suspect that could be a real possibility.

He is gay, but that's no problem for me.

> In the end, who is more crazy? The person who is a furry and likes anthro
> characters, or his brother, who has a maniacal hatred for something that
> is harmless (extreme mood swings) and is so delusional (note that word)
> about what furries actual are that he would make his brother homeless.
> Hmmmm, sound familiar?

I do not consider myself crazy, my way of thinking is completely logical.

> If I had to choose, I know whom I would recommend see a mental health > professional.

A psychiatrist with whom I consulted, said furry mental illness. This is an occupational therapist, a licensed and diplomas.
25 Comments
viperman
11/13/2013 09:43:14 pm

Damn.

Reply
TKTigerkat
11/14/2013 12:24:06 am

burn!

But seriously, anyone so screwed up as to kick out their own brother for something so trivial has no right to point the finger at others.

Reply
Raven The Fox
7/9/2018 07:45:52 pm

ikr, I personally think for that he should leave, even if it's his own home

Reply
Sha
11/14/2013 05:15:48 am

Well damn. I almost think this letter is fake (I kind of hope it is), but being around the internet...

I hope his brother is okay.

Reply
Papabear
11/14/2013 05:45:32 am

I'm sorry to say that the letter is not a fake. It landed in my email last night. Because of its nature, I replied right away. I would not fake a letter in my column. I hope no one thinks that!

Reply
Troj
11/14/2013 12:03:51 pm

Oh, I think the previous commenter meant that Gerard is a troll and a fake, given his bizarre ranting about "transgenics" and "interbreeding," and the weird, nonsensical sidebar about "celebrities."

I've heard plenty of nasty comments about furries, but this is the first time I've ever read something like THAT.

If he isn't a troll, you may be too right about him being the one in need of psychological services! It's hard to tell when English likely isn't someone's first language, but parts of the letter sure read like word salad to me!

Good, sane, thorough response as always, though, Papa Bear.

Sha
11/14/2013 02:21:34 pm

Oh no! I meant the author of the letter was making it up, not you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

AxelWolf
11/14/2013 06:10:38 am

Wow. This guy better take a long hard look in the mirror and look at himself as a hateful person and him saying he is not homophobic or religious is full of himself. Because of him kicking his brother out all because his brother was a furry and probably do not want to even talk to him again unless his brother gave up being a furry, his brother will never show him any forgiveness and will hate him for the rest of his life.

Reply
Dan the Bear
11/14/2013 09:31:10 am

well... i think people just fears what they can understand and is out of their zone of comfort. Lots of myths... and also true horro strories about furs being all kind of bad things... but i think thats just a minimum part of the fandom, the rets are cool people that just have a fascination with animals and cartoons and enjoy this animal connection to different levels.

Hate comes from fear and fear comes from ignorance. Whne this person knows more people that have regular lives , and friends of his brother , he may relaize that not all furs a weirdos or schizo or any other antisocial thing.

Just get educated and tolerant.

Reply
Anon
11/14/2013 02:45:07 pm

Hate does come from fear often, but it clearly doesn't come from ignorance sometimes I think but it's also plain hatred to judge those as bad that are "weird/different" as well. As sadly, people just hates them for no actual reason at all, often coming from old age believes and such like "normal" for example. :/

Not only people need to stop fearing if the whole Furry is a so called "small" area of it (Even the claim that all are just Sci-fi as that's also stereotypes), but people need to stop fearing the "small" (It's not very small to me as I seen) parts as if they are some kind of murderer freaks as well and accept everyone no-matter how different, no-matter how they think as well, including what they believe.

Note: I believe I'm Anti-social but not in the way some think, just as in a guy who enjoys judging the way society goes for entertainment by bashing those who are vastly different and such. That's all I think. :>

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Diamond Man
11/14/2013 02:55:31 pm

-Note: I was Anon, didn't feel like using D-man-
"Furry declare the existence of some "anthropomorphic animals", but I know perfectly well that such can not be, for biological reasons. Nature rewarded a number of multi barriers to interbreeding. From biochemical to genetic incompatibility."

OK, I will admit, I believe that there is an existence of that somewhat out there, but what he claims isn't science at all. If you were to think carefully, it may be scientifically possible that one can be created, there are tons of possibilities. Same goes for the fact, that there are perhaps other planets out there that has very similar human like stuff. I think he is trapped by an old belief that may have been dis-proven by new discoveries and new "theories".
Though this questions me about the "label" of anthropomorphism because all Animals already has similar parts to another (Including Human). As the "old" term may be casual, the creatures we all enjoy are perhaps "other animals" with similar human minds or exact or something. Just an interesting thought but people who even believe in something that suggest it exist, isn't delusional at all.

Also, kicking out the brother for his own harmless interest (As others say) is terrible. Even if he needed help, kicking him out wouldn't be the best solution as one said I think.

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Diamond Man
11/14/2013 03:36:50 pm

I also noticed the reply claim it's impossible, sorry but I do find that an attack on Science, it's kind of the same as attacking a idea to build a space ship that can ignore gravity and travel across the Solar System in 2 seconds.

Guess I reply this way due to me being an "all for possibility" science fan. :-o

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Maxgoof
11/15/2013 04:08:04 am

Something about the initial letter and subsequent followup just doesn't ring true to me. I'm wondering if it may simply be a troll, trying to stir up trouble.

Reply
Papabear
11/15/2013 04:14:19 am

I really don't know, but I'm not following up on it anymore. To do so would be pointless, creating an endless thread of "you people are crazy," "no we're not" etc. etc.

Reply
Troj
11/15/2013 07:27:00 am

Good plan.

The tone of his follow-up signaled that his mind is already made up. Whatever you say, he will either move the goal posts and raise or alter the standard by which furries are being judged, or he will reject your arguments flat-out, because reasons.

He certainly seems to have issues with anything that isn't "real" or "material." In that sense, he reminds me of a woman I've heard tried to have fursuiters legally *banned* from her city and from the local amusement park, on the grounds that children need to learn to live in "reality."

I personally can't fathom what causes a person to become that hostile towards fantasy and "the unreal," because even the folks I know who are absolutely committed to the empirical approach and to living in physical reality are perfectly at peace with fantasy, role-playing, and imagination.

The business about "celebrities," "censorship" and "arrogance" is very, very odd, and strikes me as unusually (and maybe even pathologically) obsessive, and I almost wish he'd gone into more detail about what he means by these terms, because they don't make sense in context.

Like I said, the language barrier adds a layer of confusion, but he sure sounds a trifle, erm, unwell to me, personally!

Howard
11/15/2013 04:17:24 am

Wow. This is just a scary reminder of how low some people can sink.
Scarier to me is the fact that this guy is French and say a LOT of incredibvly stupid and fake shit about France. I am French as well, and live here and unless Belfort happen to exist on a parallel universe (I'd actually feel more secure if I knew this guy was from some alternate reality) what he says is entirely stupid and untrue.

PLEASE guys, don't think this nutcase is some sort of generality !

I find very entertaining how he point us to be arrogant, full of anger and prone to censoring. The guy pretty much censored out his -own brother- and his letter is dripping with arrogance and self entitlment to judge while making my screen almost melt from his hate and rage.

The thing about it not being useful or realistic is entirely subjective, vary from case to case and is totally beside the point ! Unless he can prove that every Star wars fan is trying to fix their own starships, build their lightsabers and call upon the Force... And for the costumes, as far as I know, Comics fans and fans from every horizons actually practises cosplay since ages.

Also, a General of our army who lost it enought to almost kill his own son because of porn ? Now I am really frightened. Such people shouldn't even be allowed to serve.

The whole post about Mali and beliefs is plain out racist and totally dumb. So now, -believing in the existance of soul- is -not allowed- in France ? Well, we're in deep shit right now, with Christianism and Islam as the main religions, with almost every other existing ones scattered everywhere including Wicca, Spiritism, totemism... The guy said he served into army, then once again, I'm unsettled because surely, it couldn't have went unnoticed to him that one of our country's mainparticularity is to be lay (in case I'm not using the good word, try translating Laïc / Laïque). So If I get that right, We allow anybody to have any religion BUT forbid them to believe in the existence of soul ?

I don't see how being a furry could prevent anybody from working, and the last few sentences are actually so erratic and weird that I believe, they have been slammed down the keyboard in a fit of brainless anger.

I took anough place as it is, and I don't have the spirit to comment on the full text, cause each line makes me more and more depressed.

I really want to give you Papa Bear all my support and encouragement for managing to answer calmly to such... hum, things, without losing your serenity, cause it really took me a lot of effort not to answer on the same level as he did.

And for those having a doubt, People like that does exist, in every countries. As sad as it sound and it sadly is almost never faked.

"Never input to malevolence what is most likely the work of stupidity"

Reply
Howard
11/15/2013 04:23:54 am

PS : Now that I reread through it all, thought, it does seems strange that the first letter started with a "I don't know how to react" only to go all uncle Vernon on us just after "You lot are all freaks and nutcase". Taking a step back, I understand why it could seem as if he was just a troll trying to stir steam.

Reply
Diamond Man
11/15/2013 03:18:11 pm

I didn't notice the reply when I was reading comments.
Yeah he is insane, and his current arguments are probably wrong for example:
"Anthropomorphic animals do not exist, never existed, and naturally can not occur. Nature has provided a number of restrictions and blocking interbreeding, from genetic incompatibility to biochemical incompatibility. All should know and understand, and not to live in a meaningless world of fantasies that do not lead to anything."
I see, so this guy has been EVERYWHERE in the universe and beyond and pretends he knows EVERYTHING about science. He is honesty against Science Fiction, and I don't know why the hell he has a huge problem with people even believing in some small faith. Everyone has a right to believe whatever the hell people want, and even if someone did believe that, that does NOT, make them crazy. Believing Earth is the only place alive, attacking religion, spiritual believes (Kind of like above as I said) makes you (Gerard) crazy. Period.
If the guy went so far, that he has damage his reality, then maybe I understand, at least for a small help of getting help. But what he said is still insane about the guy.

And killing a person over some porn picture. Trust me, when the Earth goes into flames, or whatever the hell will happen to it, good. Because that's one way to get rid of hell on Earth with hateful people.

And no, I'm not a big fan of "But we are not like this" It's time to just let people realize that even the hatred to even small things like what some people has interest to isn't a issue at all. But of course, that's not going to happen soon I think but I hope I'm wrong.
That way, we wouldn't even have arguments anyway kind of.

"I do not consider myself crazy, my way of thinking is completely logical."
Give me YOUR proof Gerard, that your claim is real, including the ones inside. Oh, and can I ride your UFO spaceship and see what you have seen in space then?

Same with some others he claimed.

*Sigh* I can't even believe that 2013 exist after 2012. Kind of wish the "End of The World" claim about it was true.

Reply
Spottacus Cheetah link
11/17/2013 11:06:15 pm

Thank you PapaBear for a cogent reply to a heateful letter. I too graduated top of ivy league schools, and i am open about the fandom to the business community, whi as a whole have been very accepting and supportive, even when i threaten to shiw up at a stick exchange public offering to ring the opening bell in fur (hint: the stock exchange is ultra conservative). But every now and then i run into the ignorance and hate that you did in this letter. Fortunately, it is in the minority. Your answer was perfect.

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Rayne the akita
11/27/2013 04:03:40 am

I hope his brother is ok. The amount of negativity was a bit much. I felt the joy being sucked out of me reading this. He sounds like a robot himself.

What got me the most is he refured to his brother as a thing not a person. That was sad.

Reply
Shirkahn Wolfbane
12/21/2013 10:39:42 am

All; I can say is WOW, this guy has been mislead by so many haters that he has been brainwashed in to believing we are crazy and like to have sex with animals. Even though I have been a furry for a little over 7 years, I have never once had a thought of having sex with an animal. We are not crazy nor are we schizophrenic. We are who we are, we are people who just happen to like dressing up like our favorite animal. Myself, I am a Were-Cat, a mythical creature which was depicted in the original Wizard of OZ. I have nothing against gay's, my favorite nephew is gay but that doesn't stop me from loving him any different. The misconceptions people bring upon us is being over bearing and it's high time we go out, show them who we really are. We are normal, everyday people who have professional or semi-professional jobs which we go to everyday.

I myself am a professional Forklift Driver and Truck Driver. I go to fur cons all the time and no one ever tells me I'm crazy. They might think I'll run over them with either my forklift or truck...lmao. On a serious note though, this guy needs to be shown what a furry is and then and only then will he learn and not judge anyone who is a furry.

Everyone, have a Safe and Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year.

Reply
Nite
3/29/2014 03:57:17 pm

Its ignorant ass holes like him that make so many of us flurries hide what we are. Fuck him and his "logical" thinking. Did he even read your reply?

Reply
Sergie
11/6/2017 06:06:49 pm

he is the Donald trump of the furry fandom

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Alec
7/27/2018 11:59:07 pm

This French guy sounds like an asshole. I read the whole thing and I found his broken English to be laughably awful while his dad nearly killing his brother over porn was repugnant. His bigotry is so disgusting. I've talked to furries online and they can be generally nice and creative people.

His responses were giving me a headache. It was so mindbogglingly dumb as bricks to read. Glad you remained level-headed over all this, Papa Bear. You're a good man.

Reply
Maxi
3/27/2020 11:45:24 am

Holy shit. This Gerard person is absolutely bat-shit insane! Could be a troll though. God, his words are giving me major OCD. I don't want anyone to taint my love for furry culture.

Reply



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