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Papabear Got It Wrong

9/5/2013

7 Comments

 
Dear Readers,

I told you furs that Papabear wasn't perfect, and yesterday's response to a letter is an example. But I will certainly admit when I am wrong and revise my opinion! 

As an explanation, not an excuse, I will just say that I had a knee-jerk response because it reminded me of a disturbing chapter in my own life, although that was not a matter of consensual incest. Yesterday's writer talked about a consensual sexual relationship with his aunt. I pointed out merely that it was, technically, illegal (in all states except Michigan and Rhode Island) and he should knock it off. I later pointed out in a response to another reader, Critter (thanks, buddy!), that such a relationship would likely wreak havoc within the furry's family and possibly lead to other problems, also noting that the relationship was likely inspired by lusty hormones and the opportunity of having access to a woman living alone in her home.

That all aside, Critter noted that just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong (citing the Civil Rights movement against racist laws and practices), also adding that just because some people think it's "creepy" doesn't mean it's bad. Agreed on both counts.

Next, my mate, Yogi, chimed in, saying, "Don't assume that because she's his aunt that they are blood relations. She might be an aunt by marriage. She also might not be that much older than the writer." I bow to his sage insights.

So, let's sum up. Is he doing something wrong? Is the aunt doing something wrong? Well, the writer is 19 years old, so he is of legal age. The aunt, too, obviously. Technically, what they are doing is illegal in Washington state, but cases of incest are very rarely prosecuted, even between much closer relations such as a man and his sister. Could their relationship damage the family? No doubts there, unless the family is incredibly open-minded, but maybe that doesn't matter if they are so absolutely in love they don't mind some anger from family members. 

I am concerned, though, about how much of this relationship is love and how much is simply lust. Critter and I both agree a little cooling off period might be wise so that they can both consider their motives for having sex with each other.

But, if they decide after a little break that they want to continue with their relationship, as my mate said, "Meh! What do I care?" That really should be up to them, and Papabear apologizes for letting his personal emotions on the subject get in the way of offering objective advice on this particular matter.

Returning to the writer's original question: "When is it normal? Is it common?" My answer would be that it is not very common, but that doesn't mean it is wrong. Is it normal? Oh, geez, after writing answers to over 400 letters in the past year-plus, I can honestly say there is no such thing as "normal." There is such a thing as "socially acceptable," but normal? No, just no. And when in doubt, I can always rely on the wisest advice I know from Wicca: If you are not hurting anyone, do what you will.

The writer doesn't care, in the end, whether it is "right" or "wrong." He just wants to be with his aunt. It makes him happy and her, too, evidently. For now, at least, perhaps that is enough.

Papabear
7 Comments
Critter link
9/5/2013 04:37:38 am

Wow! My respect for you has grown two sizes today, Papabear! Takes a wise and strong Bear to think twice about things. And every advice person brings their own life story to the table, otherwise you couldn't give good advice (ask Amy Dickenson a question about infidelity for example).

This letter is a tough one in my opinion. There have been highly unconventional relationships that have worked. However, the brain being what it is, it's easy to convince yourself that you're "the exception". By taking some time off (with no contact at all) the young person can better discern the truth of his feelings. And he should be aware of the consequences of his actions, too.

But I always keep in the back of my mind that most people find my desire to share my bed with another man to be strange or worse so I try to not judge others too quickly based on my gut reaction, admittedly negative in this case.

Reply
Diamond Man
9/6/2013 03:32:02 am

Wow, it's often very rare for a person to view them selves that they were wrong when they do have knee-jerk believes. I'm very glad you are pretty open Papa Bear!

Reply
Scrumplet
9/10/2013 09:29:29 am

I feel a little sick now that you are saying it's ok to have sex with the aunt.

Reply
Papabear
9/10/2013 01:08:20 pm

Hi, Scrumplet,

I understand your reaction; it's the same one I had with my original response. Most of us have that feeling, indeed, that it's "sick" to have sex with a relative. I have already outlined the reasons not to, such as the problems it will inevitably cause in the family and even the possibility (if it leads to children) of having offspring more likely to have genetic mutations that are undesirable. What we need to do is examine these feelings closely. What is more important? Love or our gut reaction that it is somehow disgusting to have sex with a relative? Why do we have this reaction? Why do you, Scrumplet, feel this way about a young man having sex with his aunt? This is not a rhetorical question: I'm truly curious.

Reply
Sonne
9/10/2013 02:31:26 pm

From what I've been led to believe, the main reason that incest is wrong is due to how inbreeding is supposed to have very negative effects on the genetics. As far as I know, children born of incest and inbreeding have many issues (genetic disorders, infertility, shrinking size, weaker immune system). Most of these problems can be worked with and eased, but life for the child would be more difficult than the life of a healthy child. So if it's incest with blood, I'm against it... only because it's lowering the quality of life for the possible child.
On the other hand, if she is an aunt by marriage... well then there shouldn't be any problem (save for the law).

As far as morals are concerned... morals are an opinion. Ten years ago I was taught that thinking about the no-no square was wrong, so morally it was wrong in my mind. Any time the other boys at school would mention it I'd instantly repel it as my morals told me it was wrong. My morals have obviously changed and adapted with the times, which shows that what is right and wrong as far as morals are concerned is merely an opinion that can be swayed. What society feels is wrong today may be the status quo tomorrow.

Going by assumptions as to the young man and his aunt's situations, I find it to be the wrong choice. I feel that he's too young to really have love and that it is just lust, I feel that if they were to get together then something could go wrong and they'd either get caught, have a kid, or both, and I feel that they both need to really analyze their situation and decide on what they feel would be the best course of action for the both of them.

And I apologize for the length of this comment, I tend to be bad with flapping my gums.

Reply
Papabear
9/10/2013 02:39:26 pm

Good input, Sonne, thanks. As for the genetics argument, while breeding between relatives can increase chances of birth defects, it by no means guarantees it. Usually, discussions of the negative impact of inbreeding come from studies of small populations where inbreeding is common over generations, or sometimes within small populations of royal families (for example, hemophilia in the Romanovs).

That said, I think everyone agrees that the writer and his aunt should cool off for a while to assess whether this relationship is based on just sex or not.

Reply
Max
9/10/2013 02:59:20 pm

Before you can say whether something is wrong, you have to ask, wrong on what level?

Would public knowledge of the affair cause problems in the rest of the family? In that sense, yes, it is wrong. (BTW, this is true not matter who is having sex with whom) It is wrong of you to cause someone else a problem over which they have no control. Now, if he and his aunt decide to move far away so as not to cause their family any further embarrassment, that is something else. But to expect them to just take it? That's not fair.

Is it possible that the relationship could result in offspring? Again, then, yes, it is wrong, as you would become both father and cousin, and try explaining that to anyone, especially the offspring. You *might* get away with it, if, and only if, the aunt is not a blood relative, and the previous marriage resulted in no offspring. Then, technically, she is no longer your aunt.

The fact that it is illegal still makes it wrong. You don't like the law, you change the law. Either that, or you go the way of "Civil Disobedience" wherein you deliberately break the law, let others know you have broken the law, let them arrest you, plead guilty, and serve out your sentence to show that the law is wrong. To do something illegal but keep it a secret doesn't make it right.

So, you see, the problem is not clear cut.

I will say that it is far more likely that the affair will cause more problems that either realizes.

Reply



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