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  • Ask Papabear

Is Babyfur Art Pornographic?

10/10/2013

4 Comments

 
Dear, Papa Bear.

I have been having this mental conundrum for quite some time and generally it began like half way into my 16 years of being a furry. I am not writing this to bash any one or to shame a group but I just want to have a bit more of an understanding of things as a whole. 

Now I am a part of several groups on my G+ and my interest is very wide I feel a connection to "most" things that exist in our community but the thing that confuses the hell out of me is the part in the baby fur community where some stuff likes okay but other things I've seen generally rustle my jimmies to the point of nose bleeds. 

Again, not bashing any one, I am apart of several abdl furry communities and some of my best friends are, too. However, a while back there was a set of pictures depicting humans, presumably baby furs, doing naughty things as children. Yes, I know they aren't real children. Yes, it’s just art. Yes it’s not real. But at what point do you draw the line in what is okay and what makes you feel like a pedophile just looking at it. 

I've had this debate several times and it just does not end with a proper answer. I like cute and cuddly art and I've even been known to wear padding once every other full moon, so I am not saying baby furs are bad. I just want to know where that stupid line is that shit should be called pedophilic or not! 

Please, Papa. . . Help!

Random Background Pony

* * *

Hi, Random,

That’s a very good question. To me, there are two kinds of babyfurs: the ones who just like to wear diapers and pretend they're infants and like innocent pictures of infant furries doing G-rated things, and then there are the ones who sexualize innocent children, and that, to my mind, is wrong. The reason it is wrong is that sex should be between two consenting people, and when one is a sexually immature child who doesn’t even understand what sex is and is at the mercy of the power of an adult, that child is not consenting, and taking advantage of that is rape, pure and simple. Displaying images of infants doing sexual things stimulates and encourages this lust for rape, and so that, too, is wrong.

I looked up California code on child porn laws, and found this passage: 

Even though it may depict children engaged in sexually explicit activities, there are some types of "content" that are excluded from child pornography prosecutions. Possessing "pornographic" images of minors in drawings, figurines, statues or in films that have been rated by the Motion Picture Association of America are exempt from California child pornography laws.

So, I’m not actually sure if illustrations of children or babyfurs would be against the law under that definition, but it seems that it isn't, at least in my home state. If it were, there would be a lot of furries being arrested right now. The law seems mostly concerned with photos and film of real children being exploited for sex, not in illustrations.

I have no issue with someone who likes to wear a diaper, even if he or she is not incontinent. I think some people do that because they have a very strong desire to return to that innocent past that they have either lost or that was denied them in the first place, so they find diapers comforting. Also, many people just find drawings of little infants to be adorable; nothing wrong with that. There is, indeed, a charm about young life.

If you have been reading my column for very long, you know Papabear is extremely tolerant of unconventional behavior. I have written on everything from zoophilia to polyamorous relationships and even incest. Being a gay man and knowing that most of society disapproves of my behavior, I feel I should be open-minded about other people’s behavior, too, as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult and that no one is getting hurt.

But when someone exploits a child sexually, the psychological scars are impossible to recover from fully. Drawing pictures of such exploitation, therefore, in my mind, is actually worse than pornography—it’s disturbing. I would recommend that people who get off on this type of art seek some counseling, because there is definitely something not right with their heads.

In today’s society, children are allowed precious little innocence as it is. Let’s please not expose them to the idea of sex until they have reached puberty. Childhood should be a time of innocence and wonder and discovery. They’ll learn about sex more than soon enough.

Papabear
4 Comments
Rowlga
10/10/2013 11:56:07 pm

I think there was a US Supreme Court ruling not long ago that said the only child porn that can be illegal is child porn made with actual children.

Diapers and babies completely ruin the mood for me personally, but seems like whether it's actually wrong depends what's going on in the babyfur's head, what kinds of assumptions they're making about the intelligence and innate sexuality of the character that happens to like a baby or child, and if they have the presence of mind to keep that fully separate from reality. They're definitely playing with fire, though.

Reply
Rowlga
10/10/2013 11:58:30 pm

*...happens to LOOK like...

Reply
Howard
10/23/2013 12:10:42 am

Dear PapaBear

I'm silently following your site since, I believe a couple years, and even considered writing to you once on my behalf and once on one of my friend's, thought, never got to it in the end. Althought, I always find your stance and well thought answers to be heart warming and enlighting.

Today, I hope you won't be too bothered by the fact that I'm not entirely agreeing with your own point of view, even if the subject doesn't directly concern me, I did asked myself those questions before, and would like to share my own thoughts.

First, I want to point that I'm in fact not at all into babyfurs and that the arts falling in this category totally irks me.

I never really thought deeply about the right or wrong of this subject before a big pro-con babyfur/cubporn bloodwar exploded on one very well known site of our community. And as the great separation took place and raged everywhere around me, I actually took the time to read and think about a lot of arguments between the protagonists.

In the end, and to save time, I do believe our community is stigmatizing a minority within a minority. If you take a step back, Yes, child abuse IS extremely wrong. I'm all against child abuse, and I do believe it should be severely punished, but here, we're talking about either art depicting those, or people pretending it to happen during their sexual intercourses or roleplay, when it really involve two consenting adults. If we assume this shouldn't be depicted, written or talked about, then the same should go with rape, murder, gore and stuff like that.

As horrible as child abuse can be, I don't feel like being raped in a dark cave, then having one's throat slit open and left to die in a dark alley is excusable as well in real life. This is not a less horrible situation, and yet, it is one wich our community seems to sit with much better.

None of those appeal to me, but to compare to a subject I know a bit better, I am myself turned on by hypnosis and mind control. Both the playful and more agressive and dark one. Most people wouldn't blink an eye at my fantasies, but if we go back to real life, how twisted can it become, to have someone sensory deprieved, conditionned and reinforced until he/she's just a mindless slave ? Suddenly, my fantasy isn't that fun anymore.

Now, I see in the end of your answer, and just like many others, you explain how child abuse is horrible in real life, and really, it is. But, unless mistaken, I believe we where talking about the imaginary part of this, be it playful, or indeed, quite naughty.

To me, in this debate, almost each time it appears anywere, we're entirely missing the point, and are associating each person getting turned on by this with a real life pedophile. Wich would make any people getting off on gore a real time murderer, every feral fan a real time zoophile, and so on. It would make me a real life criminal as well.

the way I see things, we don't chose what arouses us, and depending on too many factors for us to even keep track or realize, we end up with the qualities and quirks and well, kinks we have.

To me, the real question, the heart of the problem is how responsible we are. Keeping our fantasies separate from the real life, you can't punish someone for being aroused by animals, rape, murder, violence, blood, sickness or children, as disgusted as you cna be at the idea. But we, humans or fur in heart are not creature entirely made of black or white. What matters for real is being able to keep ourselves in check. Judging or banning those only fantasising about it, well, that will not prevent some of those having this interest to one day commit the unrepairable, because yes, that will happen, just like some fantasising about rape or murder will one day act on those. Or some having the same interest as me ending up using alcohol or drugs to rip a non existing consent to a weakened victim. And that's what matters in the end.

I actually believe being able to talk about it and share might even give some of the weaker ones the steam off needed to never fall that low. Some form of catharsis if you see what I mean.

Anyway, this was a terribly long response, and I apologize for taking the time to comment here only to state a different opinion, but this is a subject I got plenty of time and occasion to think about and I felt it was relevant to be shared. thanks for those managing to read all of this, and my sincere salutations to you, papa bear !

Reply
Papabear
10/23/2013 02:21:06 am

Your comment is so fantastic, I'm going to make it a feature on today's column.

Reply



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