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Could Furries Set Up Some Kind of Independent Furtopia?

10/22/2013

7 Comments

 
Hey Papabear!

My question here isn't too important, so feel free to put more important ones forward. This is just a curious question that I was wondering what your thoughts were.

Anyway, over the weekend, I attended a small furry party with some good friends. Eventually, conversation turned to how I want to move in with my best furiend and his polygamous mate come next year for class. I believe it will benefit all of us as they would get a larger area and much more opportunities for job markets as well, but they're still a bit hesitant. Another friend chimed in and began to talk about living in communities or apartment complexes, and eventually the conversation effectively turned into creating an all-furry community living together in a fenced in area. My friend and I were quick to point out similarities to nudist colonies and sex offender communities.

Now while the thought is somewhat appealing and my friends all seemed to show enthusiasm for such an idea to the point of developing other ideas which I'll explain later. However, I have my doubts. I'm not sure that creating such a community is wise as it effectively closes off the group from surrounding communities and becomes somewhat of an oddity. People tend to make fun of nudist colonies and avoid sexual offender communities with strict reasons. I'm not sure that would be healthy for the fandom much at all. The community, in my thoughts, would become an oddity, something to avoid and to poke fun at while holding interest for a while, but not inviting much variation.

The next idea to mutate from the community was a furry mansion that would be funded by kick starter and work like the "Big Brother" TV show that aired on MTV to gain money and donations from TV or Internet networks. Everyone also seemed rather enthusiastic about that idea as well, but again I was quick to question it. I would think doing that would make everyone involved into a spectacle. Actions change in front of cameras and boring actions turn people off. This would effectively turn the fandom (or at least the people involved and the fandom to people dim witted enough to associate those people with eye entirety of the fandom) into entertainment and possibly a joke. People want to be entertained. They want fights, sex, and drama, and based on the people involved... it just wouldn't work out well for everyone, I would think. I don't want to be connected with "Furry Jersey Shore" and I don't want to see my friends involved with that either.

The last idea to evolve, that sparked a very very long conversation about how it would be done, was building an off-the-grid furry community from the ground up in the wilderness and turn it into it's own, stable entity with farming and such, removed from society as much as possible. Basically, it would be built as a dome structure and also funded via kick starter. The plan is to span 25 acres with included farmland as far away from society as possible. This also doesn't sit well with me. Again, it's closing off the group from expansion and creating an oddity. Talk about similarities to M. Night Shymalan's (however you spell that name) "The Village" arose and I just felt even more turned off and worried about the plans for it. Apparently, floor plans are being written up and shared. I'm still very unsure and wary of the idea, even if building is a possibility, it just doesn't sit right. I'm all for creating a close-knit community, but I feel society is needed. I know I don't speak for everyone, but I don't really want to be a farmer, I'm majoring in microbiology. My friend has a degree in English and the other in game design. I know it all depends on what the person wants, but it still just doesn't feel right and bothers me somewhat.

Well this turned out to be a little weird and awkward to talk about. Maybe it's just me, but thinking critically about the ideas, I seriously think they are all mistakes. I could be wrong, but I'm just curious. What do you think, Papabear? I'd love to hear your take on this.

DT

* * *

Hi, DT,

This is an interesting mental exercise, but Papabear agrees with you that the ideas you and your friends were discussing are both impractical and unrealistic. I can see where they would have a broad appeal from furries who would like to escape from mundane society and exist in some kind of idealistic commune a la the 1960s Hippie era, but I am with you on this: it won’t work. Not only will it not work, but it is just a bad idea. Let’s go over the suggestions. . . .

The first proposal is to create some kind of fenced-off commune community analogous to a nudist colony (I don’t really like the idea of comparing this to a sex offender community, which is rather insulting because it implies we are pariahs). Of the ideas presented, this is the most feasible if the notion is to just have a bunch of furries in the same apartment building or condo association, perhaps. The difficulty here would be to manage to find such a building where you could find enough available apartments or other living quarters. Unless you all move into a new building that has yet to be rented out or sold, it would be very difficult to do. If you’re talking about finding some land, fencing it in, and living there, again, how would you manage to buy that amount of land? Who will finance it and build the structures, fencing, and supply the water and electricity and gas you might need? Or, are we talking about a more rustic feel where you are all camping and getting water from a stream or well (and then you really need to worry about monitoring water cleanliness) and maybe generating power from windmills and solar? Again, a big up-front investment. Or are you willing to live like pioneers? Building latrines and relying on candles and fires for heat and cooking and light? Somehow, I don’t find typical furries, with their addiction to the Internet and computer games, living so Spartanly. You will feel very isolated in your fenced-in community, indeed. Finally, there’s the drama issue, which furries are noted for. Who will be in charge of this community? How will you select leaders? Will it be a democratic society? If so, how will you run elections etc.? What a can of worms that will open up!

Your next idea involves getting some sort of TV company interested in funding your little venture. Problem #1 would be that, even if you got this going somehow, the producers would be picking the furries they wanted in the show and everyone else would be SOL. Then, as you state, they will want drama. Now, not a thing hard to generate among furries, but that will just result in competitions and hurt feelings, tearing apart whatever feeling of community you might have had. As you said, do you really want to be a furry version of “Jersey Shore”? Finally, what do you do when between seasons? How about after the show is cancelled, as it eventually would be even if it were a success. Bad plan.

Next idea was having a kind of commune set up, which is rather similar to idea #1. The extremely naive notion here is that you will miraculously be able to get it funded by a kickstarter. Now, for readers who don’t know what that is, a kickstarter is a program funded by investors usually to fund some kind of artistic project, such as a filmmaking venture. Ultimately, the kickstarter investors will want to see a return on their investment. What sort of ROI are they going to see from furries? A bunch of you dancing around nude on some farmland? A documentary of your venture? Some furry art? Hate to break it to your friends, but ain’t gonna happen—not on this planet, anyway.

All of these ideas, even disregarding their impracticality regarding finances etc., are wrong-headed. Papabear realizes that furries often feel alienated from the rest of society and wouldn’t it be lovely if we could set up our own kind of furtopia? But instead of separating ourselves from society and making us even more a target of suspicion and paranoia by mundanes, we should be trying everything we can to gain acceptance by society at large, just as people in the LGBT community have been trying to do for years, and, before that, all the brave people who fought for civil rights for minorities (although those struggles have been hugely more difficult and even lethal than anything furries have ever faced, so that’s really an unfair comparison).

Happiness and freedom are not found by running away from the world. They can only be found by confronting society head-on. And Papabear is completely on your side on this one, DT.

Hugs,

Papabear
7 Comments
Critter link
10/22/2013 03:42:00 am

One possibility that might be more practical is cohousing. This is less than a commune but more than people living in an apartment building. They are not at all isolated from the community where they live, they're just more neighborly than typical Americans are.

The problem I see is that it's expensive (after all, it is housing) and most furs are on shoestring budgets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohousing

Reply
BB
10/22/2013 03:49:54 pm

I hadn't heard of this before. That is really interesting, this cohousing thing...

Reply
Diamond Man
10/27/2013 07:40:01 pm

Personality, a separated farm-land, etc that's "furry", "separated" from society is possible, it's just the most possible thing is if people from the fandom would help. Heck, it's even possible that non-furries who don't care about society could still help.

There are people that may have not needed help from society that worked before I think, and apparently, the whole world has different kinds of culture and society, so it may be possible, as a A-Social. Just harder.

Of course, getting acceptance is "another" option but it's not basically the only way I think. I always enjoy feeling "alone" and it always tend to make me feel better, even if there was hard chances.

Though Papabear makes good theories on certain ideas though I think. Just sharing my thoughts I think. :)

Reply
FerretSage
10/28/2013 08:37:33 pm

I can't believe that NO ONE MENTIONED that being a furry is simply a matter of self-declaration and how this complete lack of control over who gets to be a furry -- a precedent set from the fandom's infancy -- would throw a whole pile of monkey wrenches into any plans for a "furry community". Furry fandom indiscriminately imports personalities with diametrically opposed and incompatible values, ethics, outlooks, and attitudes. Included in the mix are sociopaths with serious character defects, but you can't kick them out because the fandom is a nerd herd and therefore overcompensates societal rejection with all-encompassing unconditional inclusivity.

Furry is based off an infatuation with anthropomorphic animals. That shared value is superficial. As such, one is, unfortunately, NOT necessarily more likely to find "kindred spirits" within the fandom as without it.

People are wildly different. Anthros mean different things to them. Think about Na'vi, Otherkin, Therians, plushies, rule 34, fursuiters, murrsuiters, gigglefairy sparkledogs, My Little Pony, foxes and wolves, videogamers, centaurs, Nazi furs, weres, haunted attraction furs, adult babyfurs, (oh hell, I'm not itemizing all the sub-fetishes that can go in conjunction with furry), Sonic fans, TMNT, (oh hell, insert a list of all the cartoon shows' and werewolf movies' fanbases, yada yada), daddy furs, civilized noble savage furs, con-goers, trans-humanists, Christian, (oh fuck, tack on a list of all the religions too -- including atheism), gay, bi, straight, asexual (LGBTQIAlphabet soup), lulz troll furries, imageboard furries and MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE -- including those aspects of furry that do not wish to be defined or sub-categorized and remain stubbornly nebulously uncodified.

None of which even begins to describe all the FAR MORE IMPORTANT DEEPER MERITS AND FLAWS to consider in selecting fellow tribes-people in a proposed budding "furry" community that these people's individual moral compasses or lack thereof (regardless of whatever combination of sub-sub-sub-subcultures they ascribe to) could have carried them off to.

So to sit these people down, who in truth have little in common and little interest in each other, and say, "Okay, here's a system of rules we need to play by to function as a community", misses the point by a factor of 9,000. Furry isn't a community. There may be communities within furry, but furry is not and cannot be a community as a whole. Communities start with shared values, ideals, and even aesthetics (the images and interactions with reality people want to associate with). If you want to start a community with those aspects of the fandom that are even remotely-possibly capable of it, starting with the love of animal people is a POOR CHOICE. Intentional communities crave balanced and stable ethos, pathos, and logos that justifies the investment of faith, hard work, and sacrifice that goes into creating and maintaining them. That goes far beyond the childish things of a protracted childhood that furry is mostly comprised of.

Furries don't even really have an identity as evidenced by the multitudinous different responses by asking any one of them, "What is a furry?" So how do you propose to make a community out of a people that aren't even a tribe, or profoundly disinterested in such by their simple natures, if you will?

Reply
Critter
10/29/2013 03:15:00 am

Umm, wow. Well, co-housing is created from the general population and that, too, has psychopaths and so forth and indeed includes all furries but somehow it manages to work.

I and other furs I know are entirely capable of being discriminating in our friends and people we live with. It isn't necessary to 'kick them out' - rather the group would only invite ones that shared their values and temperament.

Reply
Papabear
10/29/2013 03:27:27 am

Your argument seems to be that we can't have a furry community because we are too diverse.

By that same logic, the United States should not exist because we have people of too many races, religions, political beliefs, etc.

I believe that any group of people can come together if they find a unifying cause.

Reply
FerretSage
10/29/2013 07:39:43 pm

That's the point. Communities have unifying causes and codes. The U.S. is a superpower nation with solemn oaths and duties, a legal system, and constitution, so the comparison to furry fandom, which has none of those things (and lacks untold more in such a comparison), is laughable and invalid. I'm shocked you would dare compare the two.

I'm not talking about making the fandom into a nation. I'm talking about how the anti-structure of the fandom, through the malfeasance of enforced amorality, prevents it from forming so much as a simple single functioning HOUSE -- though blind people still treat it as such (much to their own detriment).

The fandom IS highly entropic. No one can MAKE a TANGIBLE community (Internet community doesn't count) out of the fandom (or anything else outside of junk merchandise to hawk).

As you all have already agreed upon the prior sentence in an earlier reply to another.

I'm saying the REASONS for that intangibility are: as soon as anyone says, "Furry is THIS." or "It's NOT THAT." in the attempt to create the causes for forming a standard to create structure for the impetus of a real community, they are instantaneously WRONG and abruptly called out on their bullshit because NO ONE gets that kind of authority to say what is and isn't allowed to be a part of furry fandom.

Furry fandom IS different from other fandoms because people within it do treat it like a community and welfare network. The problem is, they don't exercise any standards or structure, and are quite opposed to the idea, which attracts exploitative personalities like flies to a corpse. Not to mention the fandom is, consequently, not exactly conducive to life aspirations; absent of the hallmark of value of a true community. If this fandom is supposed to run like a community, as many of its motley crew of undisciplined, directionless, and many times, amoral members intend, its current state would be best likened unto a poorly run frat house. At best.

As for inclusivity: we're all excited to meet new peoples and new ways of doing things. The ironic hypocrisy is that different cultures came about through having different standards that made them interesting and unique. The negative value of indiscriminate inclusivity is that it destroys the standards of judgement of what to include and not include in a culture that makes it unique. Bring everyone in under One Big Tent(tm), regardless of what they can do, under a unifying cause, and more often than not, you may be unintentionally describing a con game.

Keep it real. You can have either indiscriminate quantity or discriminating quality (or both, if you employ shrewd Machiavellian techniques and divide them into layers and use one as a readily disposable shield to protect the more valuable other). Discrimination is not always evil: only when it's prejudiced is discrimination wrong. When you're at the supermarket determining which produce is green, ripe, and rotten, you're engaging in a form of discrimination. Tribe-selecting can, honestly, be analogous to selecting produce based on prospects' values, attitudes, and life choices. When selecting members of a community, it's important to discriminate APPROPRIATELY for its survival and ability to thrive.

I'm sure that to spend so much time wasting so many words describing a fandom about anthropomorphism will be seen as stupid by those not pressed against the fandom's glass ceiling dividing fantasy from reality. That's because the (un)imaginative minds of the lowest common denominator goes nowhere else but straight to raping targets incapable of consent as soon as the idea of real world anthro community is mentioned and are quick to either break out the torches or start humping -- or both. If people are SERIOUS about creating a furry community, the reason it is neigh impossible is due to the shallow parameters they've set for what being a furry means, and the lowest common denominators -- neither fit to lead or follow nor walk hand in hand -- that inhabit the fandom as result.

Construction is not impossible under the strictest definition, but remember that communities are held together by the glue of ideology. Be prepared to invest tons of psychic energy within the internal worlds of yourself and your members to bail out and rise above the muck and set up a defensive perimeter around whatever little corner of this surprisingly very malevolent swamp you're intending to haunt.

Thanks, in no small part, to the non-definition of furry, IT'S NOT JUST THE "NON-FURRIES" YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT.




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